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From what you posted, I agree that his father's actions were physically and verbally abusive.  |
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Liam pretty much lived by his Id. It definitely sounds like an Angelus line.  |
Exactly, this is how I believe Angelus's psychopathy is a translation of Liam. His impulsiveness paired with the abuse.
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I'm not sure what we're talking about here anymore honestly.  |
Ha, me either. I don't even recall how we got into a Spike vs. Angelus debate and I'm not even into Spike so I don't really care.
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I'm tired of the Spike vs Angel argument by fandom at this point. |
Like I said, I'm not into Spike nor any Buffy ships so I haven't paid much attention.
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I can't remember the exact line but Spike and Buffy are talking and Buffy says something like "You hurt people" and Spike says "I don't hurt you". And I genuinely think Spike believed that. He thought he could be good for Buffy and that'd he'd never hurt her. He didn't realize how his stalking, emotional abuse (trying to drag her down into the dark with him, etc) was bad. Seeing Red changed that. He finally realized he was wrong - that he was hurting Buffy and wasn't good for her. And a huge part of him getting the soul was him wanting to "give her what she deserved" (I hate how aggressive they wrote him in that scene; and him calling her a bitch? Ugh...but it just goes to show how un-souled Spike was forever toxic in his love). Soul-ed Spike was finally selfless and able to love her in a healthy way. And he immediately went from trying to pursue her to staying away from her, because he knew he wasn't good for her.
I don't think Angelus could even make that much progress and have the revelation Spike had - but I don't think Angelus would ever want to, either. So maybe he could and just wouldn't.  |
Bingo.
Sometimes I miss the simplest of routes (which could be a testament to a recent suggestion that I might be on the autism spectrum) but this is the best illustration there is of the individual nature of soullessness that for whatever reason that neither of us can remember (lol) I was attempting to argue.
Spike didn't require a soul to have the capacity to care whether an action was right or wrong and feel remorse whereas Angelus did as soulless he enjoyed hurting people which Buffy was no exception to not just
despite his soul's love for her but
because of it.
We see a specific example of the Angelus side of this in 'Eternity' when he, drug involvement aside, berates Cordy's performance in 'A Doll's House'.
It was ONLY with a soul or in this case, the soul's dominance that he cared that his opinion would be hurtful and as such had a sense of discretion (despite that ultimately, Cordy preferred Angelus's complete honesty).
For clarification, I'm NOT equating the specific situations, feelings towards someone's theatrical performance to essentially attempted rape but that both are instances of different soulless regards of someone.
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I read some articles on sociopaths vs psychopaths and I am by no means an expect or qualified to talk about it, but they made me think about the differences between Spike & Angel. Some articles argued sociopaths can still "love" in their own way if the person matters to them - and those people have value because they matter to them, but psychopaths cannot.
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I read a bit about them as well but it was at least a year ago so I don't recall much. The way you've laid it out highlights at least one main difference very well.
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Haha. That does sound like a Cordy line! I wish the show had given us more Fred and Cordy friendship and less W/F/G triangle. |
Same.
Fred spent five years in a demonic dimension and we don't see Cordy, who pre-Fred was the only woman on the team have a social life with other women since Harmony in 'Disharmony' which was uncomfortable and awkward for her with all the vamp/lesbian advances so AtS was in serious need of some girl bonding.