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Old 05-02-2018, 07:40 AM
  #294
LadyChaos
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_chick (View Post)
Not being able to stand him or thinking he was selfish or inconsiderate doesn't necessarily mean he needs redemption. It's not like he set out to hurt Foggy or Karen and they could always walk away at any time. Matt made it clear that being DD is a part of who he is and that isn't always going to align with what his friends want or even with what they or we think makes a good friend.

Different writers isn't going to change what we all saw. Of course they could pair whomever they like. Doing so isn't going to suddenly make a pairing viable, however. Matt would need more than "redemption" for Matt and Karen to work. The writers would have to do some serious retconning. I mean, the man didn't just choose Elektra over Foggy or Karen, he chose death with her over living. It'd be hard enough trying to sell any other romance after that but especially one with a woman whom Matt could have chosen but didn't...twice. I don't even like Karen but any kind of romantic reunion with Matt would be demeaning.

Marvel's anything is a girls thing in this family with my mother, my daughter, and I. And we all see things a little bit differently then what I think a lot of people see.

First being with his interactions with Foggy and Karen. When Foggy found out, he understandably was upset and angry. However he got over that, he really started to treat Matt like crap and kept trying to get him to stop doing it. Then he bailed on Matt probably when Matt needed him most because Elektra messes with his head. Matt didn't want to take the money from Elektra because he knew it was a Elektra just trying to worm is way back into his life. Foggy told him to take the money.

Karen didn't freak out (that we saw) after learning it, but clearly she took a giant step away from him after learning. That to me makes her a hypocrite, because he saved countless times and trumpeted DD's antics. Suddenly now Matt should just give it all up? For what? She clearly is saying she won't be with him while he is like this.....yet she expects total transparency from him while keeping secrets of her own: kill Fisk's right hand man, whatever happened in her past, and secretly keeping in contact and helping the Punisher who I might add tried to kill DD on a few occasions.

All relationships are a two way street. Both Karen and Foggy couldn't accept Matt once they say him as he really was, which not for nothing probably makes Matt regret telling them because it cost him the people he cares about most. It also probably drove him more to Elektra in DD in the end because he thinks he probably lost Foggy and Karen for good by chooses to put on the suit again.

I don't read it as he he chose Elektra over Foggy and Karen, and chose death with her over life with them. I think his relationship with Elektra is complicated and toxic, they enable each other and bring on the worst in each other. Elecktra knows how to manipulate Matt into doing things he doesn't want to do. I think he truly loved her yes, but I also think he knew he needed to walk away from her in the beginning of s2, but was put in a situation where he had no choice because she manipulated him.

When she died, his guilt is added to that because she died in his arms. Added to that the pressure from Foggy and Karen to hang up the suit and just be normal, when he is not; while they also are trying to maintain distance from him. I mean it's clear that in DD when Matt has drinks or coffee with either of them, its the first time he met either of them in a while. They act he is the one that back away but Foggy is the one that walked away from him and Karen is the one that clearly wants nothing to do with him if he puts on the suit.

I think when he made the decision to sacrifice himself down in the hole so the others could get out, it was partially because he loves Elektra yes, but a lot to do with his feelings guilty about her dying in the first place, and a lot to do with the fact that he probably felt he had no life to go back to. Foggy and Karen drew a line in the sand, they basically gave him an ultimatum. And he couldn't give them what they wanted.


Also from my understanding of the comic book arc they are basing s3 after, it is a huge retcon not just for Matt but for Karen as well. So we will see.
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