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That's mostly what i was trying to say Keri. Except for the part about them listening to Catherine. I cam point to a ton of very specific times when Catherine wa completely right (biggest example Narcisse's son) and them not listening made it worse. But the biggest point aI was trying to make was tbey all did their part. None are blameless. Catherine is always right....she just goes about fixing the problem the wrong way. Where Mary is usually wrong and goes about fixing it the right way...if that makes sense. That's why they make a good team. They balance each other's short comings.
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Stubborn till the very end.
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