Quote:
You mean like the way Hank Pym did?  |
Cartoons don't count.
Quote:
|
And I understand what you mean, sum1, but my childhood was the 70's and my teenage years were the 80's, and Hank Pym was a big part of the Avengers stories I grew up on. And it's not just nostalgia, I think Hank is integral to the Avengers, otherwise Marvel wouldn't have kept him for as long as they have.
|
I've seen the Avengers work fine without Hank many times. Obviously he's a classic Avenger, but I don't see him as essential.
Quote:
I agree that his schizophrenic Yellowjacket period was a mess(and not his fault), but I still liked his character along with Wasp, as well as when they were both with the West Coast Avengers. Yeah, I know you don't like that one either. 
|
I like the West Coast Avengers fine. I just don't consider them to be the Avengers (no matter what John Byrne thinks). It's like X-Factor and New Mutants aren't the X-Men. The WCA were a spinoff team. And Hank's Yellowjacket period isn't my big problem with him. I just find him boring in any of his incarnations.
Quote:
|
But I still think that Marvel was the one that screwed up, not Hank.
|
Hank's a fictional character. Marvel's what's real and he's their creation.
Quote:
|
If they'd have just kept Hank as an Ant-Man/Giant-Man combo(like in Earth's Mightiest Heroes) and not screwed around with giving him so many different identities or mental disorders they wouldn't have had any problems.
|
I think they screwed around with him so much because they found him less interesting than other characters (like I do) and felt the need to mess with him to improve on that. If you look at Hank's history in Marvel, it's pretty clear they never knew what to do with him. To me it looks like that's because they never found the crucial spark to really bring him alive. Certainly to me he never came alive as a character and thus never grabbed my attention or interest.
Quote:
|
But I also agree with you about She-Hulk, Wonder Man, Thor, etc. I know, I hate this "All New" crap as well. I actually liked Black Panther. Bishop is with the X-Men, so I don't think that'll work.
|
I never implied my comparison of Bishop and the Black Panther was about either of them being members of the Avengers. I was just comparing them as individual characters. The Black Panther was the first black superhero and that makes him important, but I think the later black superhero, Bishop, is a much better character. More interesting, more personality. The Black Panther is too perfect. He's like a DC character. He's like Batman. Most characters like that get on my nerves. That's why I'm a Marvel fan rather than a DC fan. Bishop isn't perfect. He's a real live guy with a lot of passion and motivation. He's got real limits, which make his real abilities genuinely heroic. He isn't some guy who's great at everything and all-around perfect. The Black Panther is this super-wise/super-genius science whiz/top level master combatant/ideal ruler. That's like the way Batman is the world's best detective, the world's best fighter and able to beat everybody despite having no superpowers. That's a DC-style hero. The Black Panther is a DC style hero, not like Marvel heroes, who tend to be more mortal even when they're gods (classic example: Hercules, a god eternally making a mess of things). I also like Luke Cage more than I like the Black Panther. He's not Mr Perfect, so he's relatable. He's got a lot of kick. I just wish they'd ugrade his powers more. In the '80s he could only lift a few tons. Now he can lift about 40. Why not 100 tons? The Falcon has always been somewhat underdeveloped in comics I've read and he doesn't exactly have wonderful powers, but Anthony Mackie has done a great job with him in the MCU. Marvel's foremost black female characters include two of my favorite Marvel characters, Storm and Monica Rambeau. They're both excellent characters.
I don't hate the Black Panther, but I do think he's overrated and I think that because he's the first black superhero he's seen as the best of Marvel's black superheroes and I just don't think he is that. I'll be seeing the MCU Black Panther film and maybe Chadwick Boseman can do something good with him. A good actor can improve any character, like I feel Ben Affleck did great with Batman, a character who I usually feel is an overrated git.
And anyway, I was talking about the Avengers lineup with Hank Pym, the Wasp, the Black Panther and Hawkeye. None of those are favorites of mine or even secondary favorites, and they were all fairly low power at the time (I don't like characters to be perfect, but I do like them to be high-powered). So that lineup really didn't interest me much.
Quote:
But they made him an aborigine?  Yeah, because why not? 
|
It was a dumb, offensive decision.
Quote:
|
And I liked Image at first, but only Spawn, Youngblood, Wild C.A.T.S., and The Savage Dragon. The others didn't really grow on me. I eventually gave up on Image after a year or two.
|
See, that's a list of titles I wanted to have nothing to do with the '90s. I felt it was all shallow flash and creator starpower. Youngblood, ick, that was Rob Liefeld.
Quote:
And I'd have told Edgar Wright, thanks, but no thanks. You can go make that Baby Driver movie instead. 
|
Who the
wants a film where the hero is called "Baby"?
Edited in later: Sorry about coming down on Hank so hard. I know the character means a lot to you and I sympathize.
I guess it's just that you repeatedly going out of your way to defend the character tends to provoke me, because I can't for the life of me understand how anybody could find the guy interesting.
I guess we're coming at the character from different perspectives.