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Old 08-13-2015, 11:14 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koni (View Post)
There was this apathy in Ephram you know. He wanted to have the "I don't care" attitude. And him acting this way towards Amy was exactly him trying to show how he doesn't care. He tried to not care that he had a son, he tried to not care that Andy lied to him etc. He cared. He cared about all of that, he just didn't want to show it.
Ephram thought everyone made this decision for him, for Madison to just walk away with his son. Ephram has no idea what he was feeling, how could he justify his anger towards Amy. Last everyone checked, she was still his girlfriend and really had no contact with Madison what so ever. Ephram was so hellbent on just destroying everyone else's world that he didn't care. He just wanted everyone to feel as badly as he does.

Ephram was never one to outwardly show emotion, we have many proofs of that. So to go from regular teenage kid to all of a sudden having a baby with an older woman, it's gonna throw anyone for a loop. He couldn't talk to Andy, that was clear. I was angry at Andy myself. I mean, what if Ephram went to Harold. Sure, Harold's no relation to him, but he's someone older and much wiser and could give Ephram guidance. I think Harold would've been better suited because he's not as close as Andy is. Andy had too many emotions connected to Madison. He shouldn't have been her doctor. Harold should have taken that one, he would've been completely objective. It wouldn't have been his son that was concerned in that matter, neither of his children. Andy was too emotionally connected. What else would he have done? I don't think there is an option that Andy would've gone with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koni (View Post)
I agree with this too . It was shown in the Pilot that Ephram didn't trust Andy and didn't confide in him. He didn't feel free to do so. It took them two years to get connected and slowly Ephram started trusting Andy. Knowing that Andy betrayed his trust startled Ephram. This notion that he is close to his dad fell apart. He felt like he was back in the beginning. Only it hurt him more because he had thought that he could trust Andy. In the Pilot he didn't have this hope.
It was like they were back in New York, Julia had just died and the only parent Ephram had to rely on was Andy. Some parent Andy was. Andy, great man, great doctor, lousy father...until he got to New York. Ephram, all of a sudden, had no idea who his father was. This man who tried SO HARD to get an even keel with them where they could be father and son did the utmost betrayal of anything. If anything, Madison's pregnancy, should not have been Andy's business what so ever. Madison was Andy's son's ex girlfriend. That's it. That's all she should've been. Andy crossed the line, the sad thing is, he never really understood that until Ephram boldly pointed it out to him. Andy didn't know how to just walk away. He was never there for Ephram in New York, he never really got to know Ephram as a kid to grow up and see what kind of a man Ephram was becoming. So to make that decision based on Ephram's life was premature. The only time Andy really started to see Ephram (and Delia) was when Julia died. And hello, smack in the face, Ephram's an adult. Feelings developed, emotions realized, that was it, there was no going back to figure out who it all happened. It was there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koni (View Post)
I also agree with you that Andy knew very well that he was wrong. My theory is that his affair in Season 3 was him acting out. It was eating him inside that he was lying to Ephram and he chose Amanda as distraction.
Andy as a doctor, brilliant man, always on point.

Andy as a father, he's lacking ability, but still had room to grow and change.

Andy as a man...dumbass. To say the least.

I don't blame Andy for (some...some) judgements he made regarding the women in his life. He didn't think he would ever have to date once he met Julia. He never considered going on a date with a woman that was not his wife. That he'd have to be new in the game all over again. So yeah, he picked some....well...emotionally unavailable women that more or less stunted his growth in the love department. I don't think he was ignoring Nina, however, I think he was ignoring himself wanting to be happy with another woman that was not Julia.

With that said, I think a lot of his decisions during that time weren't in ANYONE's best interests. I think Andy was just learning to how to do things without a co parent. Trying to understand Ephram, Madison's situation and being a doctor all at the same time. Andy was so used to doing it all, being the Great Doctor Brown. But he failed, it's okay to fail, but it's also necessary to admit you have failed, which is something I don't think Andy realized until Ephram smacked him in the face with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koni (View Post)
Amy had to accept that the boy she loved, the boy she wanted to spend the rest of her life with had sex with another woman and had baby with her. A baby is something for all life. It wasn't something minor. It was normal for Amy to need time to process this too.
I think, even without Madison being pregnant, I think the simple fact of Ephram sleeping with Madison is what disconnected them for a while. To Amy, Ephram had a lot of experience in the intimacy department. So she knew whenever they would have their first time, then she would feel inadequate. She would feel like she had to measure up to something. To Ephram, he never considered anything. Not like he would have to consider Amy's feelings at the time of having sex with Madison, but it was about considering her feelings when they were finally together again.

Then factor in a son. A son that would bind Madison and Ephram together forever. Even though he was put up for adoption, Ephram and Madison still had a child together. You can't take that away no matter how far that little boy is away from them, they're still bonded. That would make anyone's securities blow up like a balloon.

I think it took a long time for Ephram to accept that and realize that he and Amy aren't on the same level. And for girls, it's a HUGE difference in the intimacy department.

(forgot what I was originally talk about...rambling lol)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koni (View Post)
Amy had to struggle with Colin's situation. They might have not been for life, but her stress and suffering through his coma time were real for her.
Amy's feelings were real, no matter how overlooked they were...they were real.
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