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GrhmLz · 04-20-2004, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jess519:
GrhmLz and bugs8476: As a Christian myself, I'm somewhat appalled by some of the things you've posted.

Go right on ahead and be appalled. Honestly, I get appalled when people claim to be a Christian when it suits them (And this is not directed personally at you I mean it in general). It reminds me too much of when people sit in church on Sunday claiming to be a chrisitian just because they attended the mass. But then they have no backbone when they enter back into the world Monday through Saturday. Because there is more to being a Christian then just being "nice to everyone." A true Christian trys to love everyone (and I say try because we are human and we know that can be hard for anyone to do at times) but at the same time doesn't allow themselves to be manipulated by the world and they stand by what they know is right. Maybe you or others don't accept that it's right but they do. You can't tell a Christian "Have a belief but just don't exercise it because you might offend others." There would be no reason to have a belief because it would be an empty shell of "nothingness" that would just sit in the back of your mind with no real purpose for being there. That isn't the way it works. Of course, I consider myself a Christian. I don't condone violence and I am very giving. But I do have strong views that I Know people we'll be offended by but there is nothing I can do about that. I am not perfect but that does not mean that I turn my back on the word of God and starting messing with it in my head to create doubt. The word of God preaches against the homosexual lifestyle. I don't believe it is right and, therefore I can't support gay marriage.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jess519:
 Mostly, I wonder how you can be so certain that you know exactly what God says, what God wants, what God will do, what the future will bring. Is their no room for doubt or uncertainty in your version of Christianity? None of us can be completely certain of what God says, of exactly what everything in the Bible means. And those who think they can are dangerously close to trying to turn themselves into God.

See, but if a person has to ask those questions that means they really don't have faith? To continuously ask those questions means that one doubts. You see, it has nothing to do with "playing god" or "being absolutely sure." When you have faith, you believe completely in that word. There are no doubts and there is no need for proof. When you pray to God, God opens up the eyes of the people to have the wisdom to see the truth for what it is. The truth just is. And I'm not referring to science's version of "truth" mind you.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jess519:
Basically, I'm just glad that my version of Christianity is different from yours. Because I'm allowed to have some uncertainty about Biblical passages, I'm allowed to keep my religion completely separate from my politics, and I'm allowed to live my life with going around preaching about the perversions and immorality of homosexuals.

And no one is telling you to stop living by your version of Christianity! If you have doubts, that is your business. But I don't have doubts when it comes to God and the issue of homosexuality.

But I do have some questions for you? And others are free to answer this question as well. I am going to take an objective stance for one second on one question here and assume that God and politics are seperate from each other.

What makes you so certain that God and politics are so separate from one another? (Please take note that I used the word God and not religion. To me, they mean something different. But if they don't to you feel free to explain your reasoning)

Now here are some of my thoughts:

I am aware that in theory we are suppose to have the practice of "Separation of Church and State". But what about the term God? God isn't a church is it? In fact, God may be talked about in a Church but it doesn't have to be! Afterall, we have the modern day "Church of Scientology."

Secondly, the concept of "Separation of Church and State" derived when the colonies of New England when they separated from Great Britain. They didn't want the church to ever be able to force its will on the people again. However, the battle wasn't between the people and God. The battle was between the people and the Church/King!

Thirdly, it can be argued that a Church/religion is an institution just like the government. So, therefore, isn't it possible to say that the phrase "Separation of Church and State" is about two, distinct institutions fighting for control? And the people of the new colonies didn't want the church to be the institution to govern because they didn't want to be governed through a dictatorship by a King; thus, "Separation of Church and State" allowing a government institution separate from the Church institution. But that still wouldn't ban the possiblity of finding the same ideals in both institutions because members of one can be members of the other one. Therefore, God can be a completely separate entity from the church.

Fourth, our bill of rights and first amendment to the constitution! Freedom of and from religion. If it can be argued that religion is an institution, and not God itself, then it is possible to assume that God can still be apart of a secular Society. It's just that you can't force people to abide by a religious institution but people could base their ideals off of God and not necessarily religion. This interpretation makes much more sense based on the fact that:

(a)One of our founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, incorporated the Phrase "Endowed with certain inalienable rights by Our Creator..." (There is a definite reference to a God here)

(b)The phrase "In God We trust" is incoporated on our currency

(c)"One Nation Under God" was incorporated in our Pledge of Allegiance when it was first created

(d)Prayer was allowed in the public school system until late in the last century when it was challenged and banned

Based on this information, it would be inaccurate to claim that the U.S., from the beginning, had a government completely separate and distinct from God. Separate from the Church, yes. From God, no! It hasn't been until recently, that athesist segments of society have come forth in the legal arena challenging this and things have been changed based on new interpretation. The real meaning of the term "Separation of Church and State" is up for argument.

Also, because religion is an institution and not God, it could be unfair to say that the word of God and the bible create religious ideals. They can be if they are selected to be part of that religion's teachings but we know that there are plenty of other religions that don't use the bible! Therefore, the bible is a tool/instrument used by some religious institutions to obtain the word of God but the bible and God are not the religious institution itself.

Peace. I'll be back later.