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Old 08-08-2013, 06:16 AM
Violet Faust
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Catching up from the last thread:


I disagree. I think they showed a lot of character growth for Belle last season. I was really glad that they had her move out of Gold's house early on and start a life of her own separate from him. Maybe they didn't show as much of that as I wanted but it was still shown.
I loved that Belle got a job, but we saw her as librarian in exactly two episodes. The famous apartment where she didn’t owe Gold rent? Not at all. Moreover, she never got to speak a word about what it was like to be chained up for years. She never got to confront Regina or Hook for what they did to her. She didn’t even get to call out the Charmings and (especially) Archie and Ruby for gaslighting her when she was amnesiac, leaving her in the “care” of that bitch of a nurse with her needle, and letting Regina just waltz into her room and magic her (TWICE). It’s a good thing that Cora didn’t bother with Belle, because since she had no protection at all, Cora could have killed her like that! {snap}

Also Lacey was in Belle's POV. It was a really cool Rumbelle episode because the flashbacks were in Belle's POV and the present day scenes were in Rumple's POV.
IMO it was constructed like Skin Deep, where the fairybacks gave both their POVs but the SB scenes were purely Rumple’s. And Lacey could have given us so much insight into Belle, because I don’t buy that the SB personalities were all just constructs invented by Regina. Everyone of them had many aspects of the real personality in them, even David—Lacey had Belle’s as well. But she was also a Belle who had suffered a LOT more than the one we meet in Skin Deep.

It’s not that I want OUAT to be the Rumbelle show (which, okay, I wouldn’t mind)—I do accept that Belle isn’t a core character and won’t be featured that often. It’s just that I think she could be better used when she IS featured.


It’s not that he gets put in the closet for months at a time the way Belle does; it’s more that he’s usually just around to support Snow or do plot-related things. He did get some good scenes with Henry early on that I’d forgotten, but in general he, like Belle, is mostly used as a love interest. IMO, of course.


More than anything they need to show Neal sticking to something and fighting for his place in the world. So far all they've shown him to be is a coward and someone who runs (Neal not Baelfire). To me it would be a lot more impressive for him to be in Storybrooke and helping Belle protect the town than having some grand adventure in the Enchanted Forest and repeating last year's storyline.
Why would Neal sitting it out in SB make him a better father than trying to get to NL? And TBH, though I have a lot of issues with Neal in S2 (and agree there's a complete disconnect between Dylan's Bae and MRJ's Neal), I don’t understand the argument that he’s cowardly. He picked up a sword against wicked witches the first chance he got. He jumped into fatherhood headfirst. He let himself fall into the pit. And based on his (very belated) apology to Emma, his unwillingness to seek her out is because of absolutely justifiable SHAME, not fear.

Is the argument based on about two lines in Manhattan where he said he was afraid of Rumple? (Which he never said before or after.) If he IS afraid of Rumple, that actually makes his actions braver (bravery is overcoming fears, not never having them; that’s foolhardiness). At least twice he’s physically placed himself between Rumple and someone else—Emma in the apartment and Whale when Rum was curb-stomping him. And fear of Rumple actually supports the writer/MRJ party line that Neal was making a sacrifice, taking one for the team when he let August talk him into abandoning Emma. The easy way to keep Rumple away from him forever would be to stick to Emma like glue and keep her from fulfilling her destiny so that Rumple is permanently locked up in SB. If Emma breaks the curse, not only does she get her family back, Rum can come find Neal. Which of course is what happened.

Neal’s problem is not cowardice; it’s that the writing makes him so gullible and reactive and DUMB. He just buys into whatever story people tell him.

Making Neal's desire to get back to Storybrooke all about Emma is the worst thing the show can do to his character. Yes Tamara was using him but they were engaged and he did love her. Throwing him into a love triangle on the tail of that betrayal is awful storytelling and makes him look fickle. More than the godawful ILY scene already does.
MRJ has said in interviews that Neal is trying to get back to Emma AND Henry (thinking they’re both in SB), so it’s not only about the romance; it’s about family. But as for Tamara—it’s been made pretty clear as well that he WASN’T in love with her; he never got over Emma. We’ve had Rumple and Tamara herself tell him so onscreen; we’ve had him declare love to Emma (which IMO was sudden but understandable; c’mon, when you’re about to die the truth comes out). What the Tamara episode does is make him look SHALLOW and gullible and foolish and insensitive, especially since he more or less flaunted her in Emma’s face. It’s the single most destructive thing about the writing for Neal in S2, IMO, and I would be perfectly happy if it just turns out she brainwashed him or mind-controlled him, retcon or not.

How could his motivation be about becoming a good father if he just stays put when the love of his life and his son are in possible mortal danger?

Neal was able to leave NVL so he may know how to rescue them. If he does and just sits on that knowledge it would be very lame.
Agreed! And you said it much better than I did.


About Emma I would be really shocked if the love triangle doesn't ruin her character.
I hope not, but triangles do tend to do a number on the person in the middle. I have some hope because the writers did “protect” Emma a little by making her think Neal is dead—but it would have been a lot better for her character getting over him immediately if he’d “died” without them having those confessions of love.


Cool i like Regina episodes except when they make her to psychotic
So you're saying you don’t like Regina episodes?

I thought Robert was referring to Rumple and Belle having moments in 3x02 rather than 3x03, but I can't remember if he explicitly said that or it was just assumed given he said it at Comic Con when they had been filming for 3x01 and started 3x02 after so the script would probably have been given to them.
I thought it was 3.2 as well, but now that you mention it I’m not sure.
If 3.3 is confirmed Regina, then her scenes in 3.2 are probably with Snow and Charming. In other words, in the part of the story that we have seen over and over, so unless it is a missing second adventure when they fall deeper in love…Regina’s outfits will probably be the highlight.
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