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Originally Posted by Sugz
I dont think it's fair to compare the end of the series with the beginning of season 5. Keep in mind that the beginning of season five directly followed over 20 episodes of Pacey and Joey being together. There was no doubt in anyone's mind that they'd try to go the way of DJ again after a whole season and a half almost of Pacey and Joey and with the fact that Tom Kapinos was then running the show. But because of the fact that there were so many PJ fans out there the only way to go back down the DJ route was to completely ignore Pacey and Joey. The situation was different in season 6. They'd already given Dawson and Joey more than a chance and it was time to close out the show and even through a whole season and a half of ignoring Pacey and Joey in the end it was still what most of the fans wanted.
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I do keep in mind that PJ stayed together for 20 episodes or more including season 3. That's why treating them that way in season 5,like nothing had happened,like Joey had only had Dawson on her mind for the whole summer ,even if she had just been dumped by her one year-boyfriend Pacey, seemed like a way to say:"Yep Pacey's fears in season4 about Joey always choosing Dawson in the end were totally justified".
If I look at the whole show I can't help but think that that the DJ relationship always came first. Even if PJ stayed together for almost an year their main problem from the very beginning 'till the end was
Dawson and Pacey's ensecurities toward him. I mean, how it comes that Joey couldn't completely take Dawson out of her mind 2 seasons after the break up and could,otherwise,get Pacey out of it after few weeks?
If you look at season 5, keeping in mind the 4 past seasons, you really begin to think that after all Joey's love for Dawson was the strongest one because she could never get him out of her head.
About season 6 I think that it was just a mess.
A mess for DJ and a mess for PJ. Both these romances came out in a bad way to me.
With Pacey"she didn't feel it",with Dawson "was a huge mistake".
But while I took the huge mistake's line as a sort of rebound for Joey toward Dawson (she had just been hurt by him and wanted to make him feel her pain),I felt like she was completely honest with Pacey. Like she really did wanted Eddie in that moment and had hung out with him because she was feeling lonely and it was nice to relive the old memories.
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Originally Posted by Sugz
I dont agree that Joey and Dawson never made it work because they were too young or too scared or because of bad timing. They had plenty of chances, far more than Pacey and Joey and Pacey and Joey made it work for a long time, yet Dawson and Joey couldnt and it wasnt because of trivial things. It was because her father was sent to prison in part because of him or because he slept with her while he had a girlfriend or because his dad died and didnt want anything to do with her. Those arent "bad timing" insrtances those are situations that Dawson and Joey brought upon themselves and scream to me "not meant to be". Like I said, it's all about perception. You see those things as outside forces that kept DJ apart I see them as situations that Dawson and Joey brought upon themselves.
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They had plenty of chances I'm with you, but I do think that their fears and bad timing played a huge role in them never getting together.
At first Joey was confused and had to find herself,then she was confused by her difficult family's situation,then it was Dawson who wasn't ready because he didn't want to be hurt again,then she fell for Pacey,then they decided to keep things slow to not rush into anything like had happened before,then Dawson's father death kept in the way. Dawson was devasted and confused so pushed Joey away.
It was always because they were too young and had to find who they really were,or because of an external event or because of the fear of being hurt etc.
I think that PJ and DJ can't really be compared because the DJ bond was deeper from the beginning. They had grown up together,they were used to always stay together and be there for each other...it's normal that at 16 years old you can feel that a relationship of this kind is too much,too overwhelming or even confusing because they've always been so so close.They had almost become one person and before to stay together they had to discover who they really were alone. The fact is that they couldn't be apart either because they needed each other and that made everything worse.
I don't think anyhow that there were OUTSIDE FORCES that kept them apart. I mean,yes the external events (like Joey's dad put in prison or Mitch's death) played a role in the game ,but it was also and mostly their fault:when one was ready the other one wasn't or was simply scared by the possibilty of being hurt or not growing up.
Fears,bad timing and young age aren't OUTSIDE FORCES are very linked to who we are as persons to a certain point of our life.
I think that for Pacey and Joey things were easier in that sense ,because they were different people who,yes grew up together, but were never that close to each other before of season 3. It was something pretty new and less confusing in that sense. The main problem in the PJ relationshp was in fact
Dawson.
And just for the record,I usually am not a fan of the FIRST LOVE THING. I do think that the most of the times True Love comes with time ,when you're older and wiser. I also do not believe in star-crossed lovers. But I do think that when you're so young it can be very difficult to handle a romance that is overwhelming and confusing ,so it can happen that two soul mates stay apart and can't find a way to deal with it for a while and get together when are older and ready to.
I also think that you can't have a DJ kind of relationship for 40 years or so.That would be really unhealty and pathetic( the best exemple that comes to my mind right now are Chris and Lorelai from Gilmore Girls.These two haven't been together since they were 16 and have hardly seen each other during the last 20 years of their lives and still in the first two seasons we had to get through all the Star-crossed lovers'crap when it came to thes two. And even this year from Christopher's mouth.) but when you're so young...well to me it's not impossible.
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Originally Posted by Sugz
Regarding the wedding scene in the finale, funnily enough, that dream expresses my point of view perfectly as well. It was a spoof, it was poking fun at Dawson and Joey! They were standing up at the altar going through all of the crappy things they'd done to one another through the years, it was comical! It made it seem ridiculous that these two could ever work out, it literally showcased the dysfunctionality of Dawson and Joey through the years. I suppose it epitomized Dawson and Joey to the both of us but in very different ways. It certainly didnt say to me that throughout all those thing sthey still got together because the point was they'd never make it together because look at their track record. So I certainly dont think that Dawson and Joey ending the series supposedly being together forever after not being able to make it past a night after the age of 16 would make more sense than a pair that had two relationships far more in depth and long term than Dawson and Joey ever had romantically.
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..UHM Yep we definetly have different views of the scenes. Let's agree about this
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Originally Posted by Sugz
I pretty much agree with this. Although I dont think that they tried to make Dawson and Joey look wrong for each other, I just think that in the end that's what it ended up looking like.
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I agree with this. It wasn't my case,but I do understand why people got tired of them in the end. Although I have to say that also the PJ thing at the end of season 6 was pretty lame and wasn't exactly screaming MEANT TO BE.