Fan Forum - View Single Post - English, Welsh and Scottish flags banned at Olympics.

**sunnykerr** · 08-18-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

Country of origin?! How is Britain Ireland's country of origin?

"Northern Ireland, Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales are all part of Great Britain. That is undeniably a fact."

IRELAND? There happens to be a country called the Republic of Ireland. It's NOT under British rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

As for "Northern Ireland", that's an area of Ireland that was colonized and settled by people from Britain. Yes it's under British power. It's a very controversial topic.

It is not like the US states. They were all set up as states of the US or didn't last very long as independent states before they became states of the US. They did not have a long history as independent states. They did not have their own languages.

See, I was gonna answer on the first comments about the six counties of Ulster, but then you took the words right out of my mouth yourself. Whether any of us like it or not, Northern Ireland remains a part of Great Britain. I'd say, "Blame Michael Collins," but someone already got there.

Thank you also for reiterating my point on how you cannot compare the United States with the set of islands which I'll tentatively call the British Isles (not to stir yet more controversy but by way of distinguishing with continental Europe).

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

Ireland, Scotland and Wales were fully developed nations for a long time before any of them became part of England's united kingdom. England took them over and made them part of its united kingdom, but that doesn't mean those old identities are lost.

Yeah, that's something I've always wondered about. Inasmuch as England and Scotland became the "United Kingdom" after James VI of Scotland (James Ist of the UK) ascended to the throne after Elizabeth I died childless... wouldn't that mean that, technically, the Scots took over England? I mean, I know how his grand-mother was English, being Henry VII's daughter and all, hence the whole thing with his mother being imprisoned for most of her life and all that. But, pretty much, I've always thought it was strange that history has it that England took over Scotland when, by all accounts, it's a Scot who ascended to the English throne....

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum1 (View Post)

"Northern Ireland" is a part of the Irish nation taken over by England. Scotland and Wales are nations. Some people will tell you that Tibet's independent nationality doesn't matter and that it's just part of China. Well it's not. And "Northern Ireland", Scotland and Wales are not just parts of Britain.

Fair enough, but how long after the fact does "we were invaded" ceases to matter? I can't speak to Tibet. They had voted for their independence, so I say they should have it since they clearly want it.

I've never been in Northern Ireland and won't pretend to understand the various political movements that exist there.

So, strictly speaking as a French Canadian, descendant of those who remained after Great Britain (again, that nasty amalgamation) won the Seven Years' War against France and we (meaning "New France") were offered up by way of payment. Speaking as a descendant of those who remained after every French-speaking person who could afford it hightailed it back to France. Speaking as a descendant of those who remained after the United States won their War of Independence and we got "invaded" by the Loyalists who wished to remain "British" citizens. Speaking as a descendant of those who stayed when no economical or real social benefit was offered for their continued presence in this land.

When do we stop saying it was our land before they took it from us? The Natives were here before us. You don't hear very many of my fellow Quebecers wonder whether we should give them their independence, whether we should give them back their land.

And, what? Are we owed anything because, for centuries, being French and Catholic barred you from public service, from better health care and better jobs?

The past is a nasty place for all of us who were, in one way or another, colonized. What do I know of the complexities that remain elsewhere? All I know is I understand feelings of national identity that aren't necessarily tied to the figure that appears on our currency.