 | | 08-16-2008, 08:10 PM |
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#28 |
| Master Fan
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 11,505
| Quote: | I figured it was something like that, since I know England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales were at one point different countries and they still maintain separate national identities, but still, to some extent, it seems silly. | It may seem silly to you, but obviously it doesn't to a lot of other people. I think it would be a good idea to respect that. Quote: | Also Sum1, that's not completely true. Certain areas of the US have strong identities from before the US was developed. Look at New Orleans and Louisiana and the large Creole/French culture that is still there from when the French were in that area, the same can be said for Southern California and the strong Hispanic presence or the Northern states, like North Dakota especially that have a strong Canadian influence. In parts of New Orleans, French is still spoken, and in Southern California Spanish has been spoken for quite some time, not just due to recent immigration. Just a heads up. | They were not independent nations for any long period of time before becoming US states. They do not have a long tradition of separate nationhood. Ireland, Scotland and Wales do.
I am aware of Louisiana/New Orleans and South California's longstanding French and Spanish elements/traditions, but they do not amount to a longstanding tradition of separate independent nationhood. They are not what I was talking about. I admittedly was simplifying in what I said and thus was not precisely accurate, but I was focusing on the US states you mentioned -Indiana, Alabama and Wyoming. But there were never independent nations of Spanish California and French Louisiana. As for North Dakota, the present state is not rooted in some longstanding independent nation of North Dakota. The situation of Scotland, Wales and Ireland is markedly different from any of these states. (The situation of Ireland is also different from that of Scotland and Wales because the Republic of Ireland is a free nation, but there is also "Northern Ireland" which is under British rule but has a firmly established non-British identity as part of the Irish nation.)
Quote: | You can add Hawaii in there as well. There still is a sovereign movement here to a degree and people born and raised here identify with Hawaiian culture and ideas even if they don't have Hawaiian blood. Most are Americans first but the Hawaiian culture is important. | Hawaii is indeed an unusual case among American states. Do they want their own flag in the olympics?
Certainly the average US state is a very different situation from Scotland and Wales or "Northern Ireland". And bringing up Hawaii or any other state with an unusual history does not detract from the fact that these three countries (Ireland, Scotland and Wales) are longstanding nations which are viewed as separate nations by many people (Ireland is of course a free nation but there is the unfree "Northern Ireland", which is viewed as part of Ireland by very many people). This ban on the flags is an insult to Europe's Celtic minority. But from the country that oppresses Tibet I don't find this surprising.
Also, people should note that two of the British team are from the Isle of Man, a Celtic nation that is NOT part of the United Kingdom but which is associated with it.
Note: I don't wish to belittle anyone's identity. I have meant no offense to Quebec or Hawaii or anybody in Louisiana or California or any other state of the US or province of Canada. If anything I have said has offended anybody's identity I apologize. I have just been attempting to establish certain nations' longstanding traditions of independent nationhood as justifying recognition. But obviously that doesn't rule out other identities being recognized. Elisheva pointed out that people in Quebec are annoyed that the Quebec flag has not been allowed. Obviously they should be allowed to fly their flag. __________________ Free Tibet!
Last edited by sum1 : 08-16-2008 at 08:51 PM.
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