Fan Forum - View Single Post - English, Welsh and Scottish flags banned at Olympics.

sum1 · 08-15-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post)

Which brings me back to my original point. Northern Ireland, Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales are all part of Great Britain. That is undeniably a fact. And I'm not sure they'll ever exist outside of Great Britain (what do I know?). But their national identities are all very much tied to their country of origin.

Country of origin?! How is Britain Ireland's country of origin?

"Northern Ireland, Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales are all part of Great Britain. That is undeniably a fact."

IRELAND? There happens to be a country called the Republic of Ireland. It's NOT under British rule.

England ground Ireland down under its imperialist boot for centuries and Ireland fought hard to get its idependence. After all the hard work for Irish independence and most of a century of independence, now you're saying we never won our independence after all? And Britain is our "country of origin"? I've been pretty badly insulted on FF in the past but... wow.

As for Scotland and Wales, they're nations. Just because they haven't yet gained back their independence doesn't mean they're not valid nationalities. They were nations long before there was a nation called "Great Britain". "Great Britain" is NOT their country of origin. Their national identities are not in any way based on "Great Britain". "Great Britain" came about by the pre-existing nations of Scotland and Wales being being put under the power of England.

As for "Northern Ireland", that's an area of Ireland that was colonized and settled by people from Britain. Yes it's under British power. It's a very controversial topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAngel (View Post)

What I don't understand is, why is this a big deal? Isn't it like athletes from the US flying individual state flags. I mean, I'm sorry, but Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, and England are all part of the UK, just like Alabama, Indiana, and Wyoming are all part of the US, they're representing a single nation after all. The UK is a country and countries are represented in the Olympic Games.

It is not like the US states. They were all set up as states of the US or didn't last very long as independent states before they became states of the US. They did not have a long history as independent states. They did not have their own languages. They have separate cultures of their own to some extent but not anywhere near the extent to which Wales, Scotland and Ireland had separate cultures identified as Irish, Scottish and Welsh long before any of them were put under English power. Complete with their own separate languages. Ireland, Scotland and Wales were fully developed nations for a long time before any of them became part of England's united kingdom. England took them over and made them part of its united kingdom, but that doesn't mean those old identities are lost. "Northern Ireland" is a part of the Irish nation taken over by England. Scotland and Wales are nations. Some people will tell you that Tibet's independent nationality doesn't matter and that it's just part of China. Well it's not. And "Northern Ireland", Scotland and Wales are not just parts of Britain.

(Note: The Native American nations that preceded the US states of course had their own cultures, languages, histories and separate national identities long before the areas became states of America, but that's not what the US states are.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAngel (View Post)

I understand that China's reasons behind it are political, I think that's stupid, but I don't see why they were allowed to fly individual flags in the first place. I've never seen someone in the US fly an individual state flag, or Canada for the provinces or Ireland for their provinces, all of which have individual flags. So why is it such a big deal here?

States of the US, provinces of Canada or provinces of Ireland do not have individual national identities. Scotland and Wales do. And "Northern Ireland" also has a separate national identity from England.

(Quebec of course has a separate identity from the rest of Canada, but unlike Scotland, Ireland and Wales it never spent a long period as an independent nation on its own -it was ruled by France and then by Britain and then by Canada. Many people do feel it has a national identity, but it's not the sort of national identity where a country's been an independent unit for a long time by itself.)