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Ah, I've not had a good start to the week. I got pretty sunburned on Sunday and had an awful migraine all day yesterday.  |
Aww. I've been down the bad sunburn avenue.
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Yeah, I like to think he noticed a marked shift in his feelings for her late S2, but was still grappling with what it all meant/not ready to face them yet - plus, he was in the doghouse after his beige period. He might've been too focused on just earning back her trust/friendship to even fathom he could ever have more.
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Exactly the reason I tend to lean towards season 3 being where it counted.
I'm suddenly wondering if Lorne specifically waited until the beige-ness faded to have his talk with Angel. As an empathic demon, he had to have noticed it sooner. Fred has no choice of course as she wasn't around until season 3.
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He wanted her to love him in 2x22 and was visibly disappointed when she corrected him and declared her love for Groo. So I think some part of him was aware that what he felt towards her wasn't 100% friendly, but being the big dork that he is, wasn't yet fully aware that he was in love (or close to it).
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"You love me too right? As a friend or a co-worker? Maybe love's too strong a word."
He was so precious it hurt!
I most definitely felt like there was some awareness in that plea because it took him an extra second to throw in "as a friend or co-worker" which almost sounded reluctantly desperate, as though it wasn't what he preferred but would be better than nothing.
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Poor Angel. At that point, I don't blame him for being oblivious to her feelings for him. She'd done such a good job of denying them, that she'd all but convinced herself they weren't there.  |
Oh nor do I. Compared to her Angel flashed a neon sign of his feelings, this could also be the reason Fred and Lorne had focused their efforts on him.
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Plus, I think his inner saboteur/belief he doesn't deserve anything good was once again rearing its head. He probably thought Cordy was better off with Groo bc he could go in the sun, etc. Angel thought he wasn't any good for her. . |
He did buy her the elixir that allowed her to have sex with Groo without passing him the visions and paid for their vacation in Mexico.
As much as I hate the vacation and maintain that part of it was that he couldn't stand to watch them together any longer not to mention that she was too quick to accept it, I do believe that he was first and foremost putting her happiness first.
We see him do this again in season 4 when he finds out that she's in the higher plane. Ignoring the circumstances under which he became aware of that situation and his total disregard for the red flags for a moment, he was willing to let her go under the impression that she'd made her own choice to serve a higher purpose and he understood and respected that.
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Yeah, it's a definite weakness in the story now that shows are so bingeable and accessible. Their short build up goes by in a blink. I guess it does fit with her age at the time, though. Everything feels so dramatic and like 'the end of the world' at that age. Well, I know for me it did. I look back on things I thought were a huge deal at the time...and now I'm like...pfft...ant hills. (Not to minimize what Buffy went through with Angelus, bc that was obviously hugely traumatic.) |
BA's short build-up
is a blink and I concur that it fits with
her age but not so much his, neither of his ages particularly considering the era in which he was human.
In the 18th-century, the age of marriage was 15. To be unmarried at 27 was almost sinful and we are well aware that Liam's father expressed his embarrassment liberally.
Even in modern times, I assume the average 27-year-old has had at least one romantic/sexual partner while around 16 is when the first experience tends to happen as was the case for Buffy.
Bottom line, while I don't blame Buffy, for Angel to have indulged a modern teenage crush was rather disgusting.
While true that as old and sexually experienced as he was, this was his first experience being in love as well which put them on somewhat even ground he still had the capacity to handle himself more maturely with her.
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I will give Xander the small benefit of being 16 in The Pack, while Angel was 27 (give or take 200 years). So Angel was way more emotionally mature than Xander, but, yeah, I still agree with you re: X being selfish, inconsiderate, and never properly having to face the consequences of his actions. B & W (and the writers) let him get away with so much.
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Yeah, I'll concur that his age and implied home life can somewhat excuse his dismissal of Willow in The Pack. I'll also grant that boys/men prefer to avoid talking about feelings but Willow has been his best friend since kindergarten so one would think he'd be able to better read her body language and have more compassion.
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I can only imagine what our convos would look like if we re-watched an episode where they were dating. |
That's an interesting thought. We could give it a go. The Powers know I could use the memory refresher haha.
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I will say Xander comes off as very realistic. He's hugely flawed and that's very human. I've known quite a few guys with the 'Xander Problem.' I just doubt the show knew that was what they were portraying.
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Yeah, I suppose he is quite realistic.
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This is the origin story Giles gives in The Harvest:
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Giles: This world is older than any of you know. Contrary to popular mythology, it did not begin as a paradise. For untold eons demons walked the Earth. They made it their home, their... their Hell. But in time they lost their purchase on this reality. The way was made for mortal animals, for, for man. All that remains of the old ones are vestiges, certain magicks, certain creatures.
Buffy: And vampires.
Xander: Okay, this is where I have a problem. See, because we're talking about vampires. We're having a *talk* with vampires in it.
Willow: Isn't that what we saw last night?
Buffy: No. No, th-those weren't vampires, those were just guys in thundering need of a facial. Or maybe they had rabies. It could have been rabies. A-and that guy turning to dust? Just a trick of light. (Xander gives her a look) That's exactly what I said the first time I saw a vampire. Well, after I was done with the screaming part.
Willow: Oh, I-I need to sit down.
Buffy: You are sitting down.
Willow: Oh. Good for me.
Xander: So vampires are demons?
Giles: The books tell the last demon to leave this reality fed off a human, mixed their blood. He was a human form possessed, infected by the demon's soul. He bit another, and another, and so they walk the Earth, feeding... Killing some, mixing their blood with others to make more of their kind. Waiting for the animals to die out, and the old ones to return.
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I wonder how this fits in with Froggy-Angel.
Also, hold up...."infected by the demon's soul"...demons have souls now? So confused. |
Hmm. Alright so vampires did begin as their own entities but their deterioration into the remains of humans is still unclear.
"Mixed their blood' and "he was a human form possessed" sound contradictory to me. Mixed blood says hybrid to me, not a possession.
I'm also having trouble understanding how a possessed being can create new ones that both inherit the demonic traits and the vessel.
This is the reason I'd always preferred to think of vampires as corrupted corpses.